[Massplanners] [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: ADU Units

Sun Feb 16 16:05:01 EST 2025

Dan, as usual, makes excellent points.

The private hurdles to a condo adding an ADU are almost endless and one
would have better odds winning the lottery.

Thank you

Richard Harris, AICP
PDR, LLC
Planning Consultant
413-335-5012

On Sun, Feb 16, 2025 at 3:55 PM Daniel Fortier via MassPlanners <
massplanners at masscptc.org> wrote:

> Harry,
>
>
>
> I know you asked this question of a different Daniel on the listserve,
> but, I felt compelled to respond.
>
>
>
> I think way too much time is being focused on a probability that is
> extremely remote. Condominium Associations generally control anything
> outside the walls of the existing structures. Even to the point of some
> association fees cover replacing roofing shingles and decks. In that
> scenario, you may have an exclusive use area, but are limited as to what
> you can place in that exclusive use area by the Association.
>
>
>
> So, the first hurdle, likely to not be overcome, is that the condo
> association will not allow a 900 sf structure in anyone’s exclusive use
> areas – note I have seen many that do not allow swing sets or sheds.
>
>
>
> Second hurdle is that most condominium associations have limits on
> rentals. So that will probably further lead to a rejection of an ADU by the
> association.
>
>
>
> As the ADU would mean that there are additional users of association
> common areas and services, the Condo documents will all need to be
> redrafted to reassign common costs.
>
>
>
> As the state expects there to be 8,000 to 10,000 ADU’s constructed
> statewide over the next five years, or 1,600 – 2,000 per year, spread
> across all 351 cities and towns, so maybe 5 to 6 ADU’s per community per
> year, if they are spread evenly, communities should stop thinking up crazy
> roadblocks to meeting one small part of the housing puzzle. This is not
> just a response to your issue, but to the other remote concepts raised. Do
> we really need to discuss the idea of an ADU being built in the parking lot
> of a multi-family building? Is there any real probability that a three
> bedroom condominium unit might be split into two-units with one considered
> an ADU?  If such a scenario were to arise in the next five years, it will
> probably only affect one of the 10,000 units.
>
>
>
> Rather, we need to focus on how to actually get some of these units built.
> Megan’s comments on Saturday provides some good ideas for getting these SHI
> eligible.
>
>
>
> Daniel Fortier, AICP
>
> Retired Planner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* MassPlanners <massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org> *On Behalf Of *Harry
> LaCortiglia via MassPlanners
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 16, 2025 5:36 AM
> *To:* Daniel N. Aguiar <daguiar at fallriverma.gov>; Ryan, Christopher <
> cryan at belmont-ma.gov>
> *Cc:* 'Mass Planners' <massplanners at masscptc.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Massplanners] [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: [EXTERNAL]Re:
> ADU Units
>
>
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> So in this scenario, if I apply to add an ADU to my condo unit, and build
> it 100 % in my exclusive use area, the Building Inspector would have to
> deny the by-right permit?
>
> Or grant it, but with conditions? (Requiring the governing documents be
> modified, and that individual owners and lenders sign off)
>
> Interesting subject for a ZBA or a judge...
>
> Happy shoveling!
>
> H. LaCortiglia
> Georgetown P.B.
>
>
>
> ,
>
> On 2/14/2025 8:38 AM, Daniel N. Aguiar wrote:
>
> With regards to the condominium question I offer the following.
>
>
>
> The association would need to be the applicant as owners of units only
> have ownership of their own unit and any exclusive use area delineated in
> the Condominium Documents, Master Deed and Plan.
>
> The creation of the Adu would also require that all governing documents be
> modified and would likely require releases from every individual owner and
> subsequent lenders.
>
>
>
> Daniel Aguiar
>
> Director of Engineering & Planning
>
> City Engineer
>
> City of Fall River
>
> One Government Center
>
> Fall River, MA 02722
>
> Telephone: 508-324-2512
>
> Email: daguiar at fallriverma. <daguiar at fallriverma.org>gov
>
>
>
> *From:* MassPlanners <massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org>
> <massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org> *On Behalf Of *Ryan, Christopher via
> MassPlanners
> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 8:30 AM
> *To:* Harry LaCortiglia <hlacortiglia at comcast.net>
> <hlacortiglia at comcast.net>
> *Cc:* 'Mass Planners' <massplanners at masscptc.org>
> <massplanners at masscptc.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [Massplanners] [EXTERNAL]Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: ADU
> Units
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:** This email originated from a sender outside of the City of
> Fall River mail system. Do not click on links or open attachments unless
> you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you are unsure of
> the validity of the email, please contact IT.*
>
>
>
> Great points and I am sure these situations may arise. I was also floored
> by the fact that these units count in an overall local housing inventory.
> That’s sure to create a firestorm in any community short of 10% but
> actively sweating it out to faithfully add affordable units.
>
>
>
> Have a good weekend!
>
>
>
> Chris R.
>
>
>
> *From:* Harry LaCortiglia <hlacortiglia at comcast.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 7:18 AM
> *To:* Ryan, Christopher <cryan at belmont-ma.gov>
> *Cc:* 'Mass Planners' <massplanners at masscptc.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Massplanners] ADU Units
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> I hope the discussion can continue.
>
> For instance... Which one of those 20 condos on that hypothetical single
> lot gets the ADU? The first one to apply?
>
> Where on the lot it would be placed, if it were to be a detached unit,
> could make for some lively condo board meetings. (and litigation...)
>
> Could a building permit be issued without the express written "permission"
> of the Association?
>
> So many questions...
>
> Happy Valentines Friday!
>
> H. LaCortiglia
> Georgetown
>
>
>
> On 2/13/2025 8:40 AM, Ryan, Christopher wrote:
>
> Hi Harry
>
>
>
> Great last question. Our Counsel opined that only one Protected Use ADU
> per legal lot can be established, so if the condo was on one lot and had 20
> units, only one ADU would be permitted. Of course, the Condo R&Rs would
> need some level of specificity (likely lacking now) that would facilitate
> how that could be done. They also deemed the “primary dwelling” to be the
> largest of the buildings on the lot. I am not sure of that rationale, but
> hopefully we keep this analysis and discussion going.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Chris R.
>
> Town of Belmont
>
>
>
> *From:* MassPlanners <massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org>
> <massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org> *On Behalf ,*
>
> *Of *Harry LaCortiglia via MassPlanners
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2025 8:24 AM
> *To:* massplanners at masscptc.org
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Re: [Massplanners] ADU Units
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Is it Friday already?
>
> There is a mention in the final regs (CMR 71.03 (2) (d)) under *Prohibited
> Regulations,* that Protected Use ADU's can't count in density
> calculations.
>
>
>
> *(d) Unit Caps & Density. Any limit, quota or other restriction on the
> number of ProtectedUse ADUs that may be permitted, constructed, or leased
> within a Municipality or ZoningDistrict. Protected Use ADUs shall not be
> counted in any density calculations.*
>
> So, do ADU's only count when one is *not* using the number for a density
> calculation? ("Density Calculations" is not defined in 71.02...)
>
> Perhaps EOHLC will someday clarify... I'm still wondering if every condo
> in a multi condo development can have their very own ADU.
>
> H. LaCortiglia
> Georgetown P.B.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/12/2025 3:30 PM, Richard McCarthy via MassPlanners wrote:
>
> Good afternoon,
>
>
>
> I believe an ADU will count towards our total dwelling unit count. Is that
> correct?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Richard J. McCarthy, Jr.
>
> Town Planner
>
> 1 Liberty Lane
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1+Liberty+Lane+Norfolk,+MA+02056?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Norfolk, MA 02056
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1+Liberty+Lane+Norfolk,+MA+02056?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
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>
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>
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