[Massplanners] [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: ADU Units
Harry LaCortiglia
hlacortiglia at comcast.net
Mon Feb 17 07:15:11 EST 2025
Thanks Daniel,
Unfortunately, it's unlikely that _any_ of the ADU's that will be
created will be SHI eligible.
The most likely ADU creators will be:
~Mom and Pop - making an apartment for their offspring
~Existing homeowners looking to gain equity and also receive rental income
~Investment Entities - Buy, add ADU and flip... or be long term
landlords over 2 units.
I don't see any of those putting a deed rider on their ADU. They'll
build, get an Occupancy Permit and charge a few dollars more per month
than the going rate for a comparable unit in the vicinity.
Unless Affordable Housing Trusts "Buy" the Riders, I really don't see
any of those going onto the SH Inventory.
Please forgive my growing cynicism?
H. LaCortiglia
Georgetown P.B.
On 2/16/2025 3:53 PM, daniel.j.fortier at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Harry,
>
> I know you asked this question of a different Daniel on the listserve,
> but, I felt compelled to respond.
>
> I think way too much time is being focused on a probability that is
> extremely remote. Condominium Associations generally control anything
> outside the walls of the existing structures. Even to the point of
> some association fees cover replacing roofing shingles and decks. In
> that scenario, you may have an exclusive use area, but are limited as
> to what you can place in that exclusive use area by the Association.
>
> So, the first hurdle, likely to not be overcome, is that the condo
> association will not allow a 900 sf structure in anyone’s exclusive
> use areas – note I have seen many that do not allow swing sets or sheds.
>
> Second hurdle is that most condominium associations have limits on
> rentals. So that will probably further lead to a rejection of an ADU
> by the association.
>
> As the ADU would mean that there are additional users of association
> common areas and services, the Condo documents will all need to be
> redrafted to reassign common costs.
>
> As the state expects there to be 8,000 to 10,000 ADU’s constructed
> statewide over the next five years, or 1,600 – 2,000 per year, spread
> across all 351 cities and towns, so maybe 5 to 6 ADU’s per community
> per year, if they are spread evenly, communities should stop thinking
> up crazy roadblocks to meeting one small part of the housing puzzle.
> This is not just a response to your issue, but to the other remote
> concepts raised. Do we really need to discuss the idea of an ADU being
> built in the parking lot of a multi-family building? Is there any real
> probability that a three bedroom condominium unit might be split into
> two-units with one considered an ADU? If such a scenario were to
> arise in the next five years, it will probably only affect one of the
> 10,000 units.
>
> Rather, we need to focus on how to actually get some of these units
> built. Megan’s comments on Saturday provides some good ideas for
> getting these SHI eligible.
>
> Daniel Fortier, AICP
>
> Retired Planner
>
> *From:*MassPlanners <massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org> *On Behalf Of
> *Harry LaCortiglia via MassPlanners
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 16, 2025 5:36 AM
> *To:* Daniel N. Aguiar <daguiar at fallriverma.gov>; Ryan, Christopher
> <cryan at belmont-ma.gov>
> *Cc:* 'Mass Planners' <massplanners at masscptc.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Massplanners] [EXTERNAL] Re: [EXTERNAL]Re:
> [EXTERNAL]Re: ADU Units
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> So in this scenario, if I apply to add an ADU to my condo unit, and
> build it 100 % in my exclusive use area, the Building Inspector would
> have to deny the by-right permit?
>
> Or grant it, but with conditions? (Requiring the governing documents
> be modified, and that individual owners and lenderssign off)
>
> Interesting subject for a ZBA or a judge...
>
> Happy shoveling!
>
> H. LaCortiglia
> Georgetown P.B.
>
> ,
>
> On 2/14/2025 8:38 AM, Daniel N. Aguiar wrote:
>
> With regards to the condominium question I offer the following.
>
> The association would need to be the applicant as owners of units
> only have ownership of their own unit and any exclusive use area
> delineated in the Condominium Documents, Master Deed and Plan.
>
> The creation of the Adu would also require that all governing
> documents be modified and would likely require releases from every
> individual owner and subsequent lenders.
>
> Daniel Aguiar
>
> Director of Engineering & Planning
>
> City Engineer
>
> City of Fall River
>
> One Government Center
>
> Fall River, MA 02722
>
> Telephone: 508-324-2512
>
> Email: daguiar at fallriverma. <mailto:daguiar at fallriverma.org>gov
>
> *From:*MassPlanners <massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org>
> <mailto:massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org> *On Behalf Of *Ryan,
> Christopher via MassPlanners
> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 8:30 AM
> *To:* Harry LaCortiglia <hlacortiglia at comcast.net>
> <mailto:hlacortiglia at comcast.net>
> *Cc:* 'Mass Planners' <massplanners at masscptc.org>
> <mailto:massplanners at masscptc.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [Massplanners] [EXTERNAL]Re:
> [EXTERNAL]Re: ADU Units
>
> *CAUTION:**This email originated from a sender outside of the City
> of Fall River mail system. Do not click on links or open
> attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content
> is safe. If you are unsure of the validity of the email, please
> contact IT.*
>
> Great points and I am sure these situations may arise. I was also
> floored by the fact that these units count in an overall local
> housing inventory. That’s sure to create a firestorm in any
> community short of 10% but actively sweating it out to faithfully
> add affordable units.
>
> Have a good weekend!
>
> Chris R.
>
> *From:*Harry LaCortiglia <hlacortiglia at comcast.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 7:18 AM
> *To:* Ryan, Christopher <cryan at belmont-ma.gov>
> *Cc:* 'Mass Planners' <massplanners at masscptc.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Massplanners] ADU Units
>
> CAUTION:This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the
> sender and know the content is safe.
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> I hope the discussion can continue.
>
> For instance... Which one of those 20 condos on that hypothetical
> single lot gets the ADU? The first one to apply?
>
> Where on the lot it would be placed, if it were to be a detached
> unit, could make for some lively condo board meetings. (and
> litigation...)
>
> Could a building permit be issued without the express written
> "permission" of the Association?
>
> So many questions...
>
> Happy Valentines Friday!
>
> H. LaCortiglia
> Georgetown
>
> On 2/13/2025 8:40 AM, Ryan, Christopher wrote:
>
> Hi Harry
>
> Great last question. Our Counsel opined that only one
> Protected Use ADU per legal lot can be established, so if the
> condo was on one lot and had 20 units, only one ADU would be
> permitted. Of course, the Condo R&Rs would need some level of
> specificity (likely lacking now) that would facilitate how
> that could be done. They also deemed the “primary dwelling” to
> be the largest of the buildings on the lot. I am not sure of
> that rationale, but hopefully we keep this analysis and
> discussion going.
>
> Best,
>
> Chris R.
>
> Town of Belmont
>
> *From:*MassPlanners <massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org>
> <mailto:massplanners-bounces at masscptc.org> *On Behalf ,*
>
> *Of *Harry LaCortiglia via MassPlanners
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2025 8:24 AM
> *To:* massplanners at masscptc.org
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Re: [Massplanners] ADU Units
>
> CAUTION:This email originated from outside of the
> organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless
> you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>
> Is it Friday already?
>
> There is a mention in the final regs (CMR 71.03 (2) (d)) under
> /Prohibited Regulations,/ that Protected Use ADU's can't count
> in density calculations.
>
> /(d) Unit Caps & Density. Any limit, quota or other
> restriction on the number of Protected
> Use ADUs that may be permitted, constructed, or leased within
> a Municipality or Zoning
> District. *Protected Use ADUs shall not be counted in any
> density calculations.*/
>
> So, do ADU's only count when one is _not_ using the number for
> a density calculation? ("Density Calculations" is not defined
> in 71.02...)
>
> Perhaps EOHLC will someday clarify... I'm still wondering if
> every condo in a multi condo development can have their very
> own ADU.
>
> H. LaCortiglia
> Georgetown P.B.
>
> On 2/12/2025 3:30 PM, Richard McCarthy via MassPlanners wrote:
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I believe an ADU will count towards our total dwelling
> unit count. Is that correct?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Richard J. McCarthy, Jr.
>
> Town Planner
>
> 1 Liberty Lane
>
> Norfolk, MA 02056
>
> 508-440-2807
>
> Office Hours- Monday through Thursday 9am to 6pm
>
> Closed Fridays
>
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