<div dir="auto"><div><p dir="ltr">Kate Kennen worked wonders for us in Dennis Port when the discussion between the traditional 2 story commercial limitation and 3 story proposed by the Economic Development Committee (35 feet versus 42 feet height). Looks like she is at Northeastern U now. Maybe a fall class project? </p><a href="https://camd.northeastern.edu/people/kate-kennen/">https://camd.northeastern.edu/people/kate-kennen/</a></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Daniel Fortier, AICP</div><div dir="auto"> Retired Planner <br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 17, 2024, 6:42 AM Ryan, Christopher <<a href="mailto:cryan@belmont-ma.gov">cryan@belmont-ma.gov</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks Dan, always appreciate your thoughts. After last night’s Planning Board meeting, I do not see them budging on limiting to three story height but would not be surprised
by a floor amendment for an additional story at Town Meeting. It’s just one of many examples of trying to render this or that subdistrict either infeasible or paper compliant here in Belmont. But there’s a strong pushback against that too so there’s still
hope.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Chris<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:daniel.j.fortier@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">daniel.j.fortier@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:daniel.j.fortier@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">daniel.j.fortier@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2024 4:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Amy Dain' <<a href="mailto:dainresearch@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dainresearch@gmail.com</a>>; Ryan, Christopher <<a href="mailto:cryan@belmont-ma.gov" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cryan@belmont-ma.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Mass Planners' <<a href="mailto:massplanners@masscptc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">massplanners@masscptc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]RE: [Massplanners] [EXTERNAL]Mandatory Mixed Use - 3A Zoning Question<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border:solid #9c6500 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
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from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Old retiree here, going to follow up on Amy and Bill’s comments, probably with stories, apologize in advance.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Market is everything, but financing trends also throw a monkey wrench in the equation at times as well. Going back to 2006 or so, had a commercial project, proposed with plenty of extra height and vacant attic
space to be above 9,000 sf of commercial space. I had just had a talk with two local banks who were noting that commercial vacancy rates were climbing and they were afraid to lend to commercial projects without more rental housing being built. The Dennis Affordable
Housing By-law was drafted to promote top of the shop housing, which the banks wanted to help us promote. Project got approved as 100% commercial even after I had advised the developer to consider second story housing. As his permit neared lapsing he came
back to tell me I was right, he applied for the same building, with 8 rental units above. He had all 8 units rented before he had a single commercial tenant. Lesson, if there is no housing for employees, commercial floor space makes no sense and banks won’t
provide funding. The follow-up, after he could only get two commercial units leased, and one skipped town sticking Subway with a franchisee mess, he came back and converted the entire building to residential, 18 units, under a different provision of the affordable
housing by-law.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Obviously, in 2008 we had the financial collapse. Markets had to readjust. As we were working on a proposal that never got beyond the Economic Development Committee, the financial picture had changed. Banks
were having even more difficulty justifying commercial loans with the amount of vacant commercial space. This was well before COVID. As we tried to craft a “mandatory’ mixed use district it became clear that we needed to be careful in the approach. The ultimate
decision was for a Planned Unit Development approach to the entire district. If the three major land owners, all who were working with us, could get together and file a single master plan for the district (roads, utilities, greenways, approximate building
footprints and architectural concepts) then they could construct based upon market demands and financing considerations, as long as the PUD was built out to not exceed the floorspace maximums for each type of use in the district. This was probably around 2015
or 2016, at that point a couple federal entities backing loans were not supporting loans to mixed use buildings for fear that vacant commercial space could harm the financial viability of a residential structure.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On this topic, I had provided my committee with a few business journal articles highlighting the evolving financing situation. Since we were zoning for an area that last had any real change in zoning in 1973
(which really just locked into place the approach for the area that dated back to the 1950’s) we figured that what we zoned had to adjust to market and financial approaches that might be in place long after we were all gone.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Finally, in Dennis Port and West Dennis, which have 3 story in the core, we only insisted that the frontage that faced Main Street (Route 28) be commercial, allowing residential to possibly include the ground
floor behind the store fronts or fully residential elsewhere in the district.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I know none of these are in MBTA communities, but, all have built in flexibility to adjust to market conditions.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dan Fortier, AICP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Retired Planner <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> MassPlanners <<a href="mailto:massplanners-bounces@masscptc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">massplanners-bounces@masscptc.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Amy Dain via MassPlanners<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2024 3:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ryan, Christopher <<a href="mailto:cryan@belmont-ma.gov" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cryan@belmont-ma.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mass Planners <<a href="mailto:massplanners@masscptc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">massplanners@masscptc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Massplanners] [EXTERNAL]Mandatory Mixed Use - 3A Zoning Question<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">One thing I heard from a mixed-use developer recently who has been working in an area with a strong market for street-level retail is that the zoning for mixed use typically goes where there already is existing retail that has value...
and owners don't find, very often, that there is enough new value created with a 3-story limit, to take on the costs and risks of redevelopment, including tearing down existing buildings that now generate revenue. He said that once you get to four stories
or more, the financial rewards of redevelopment start to entice owners to do this. This is a slightly different framing from the question of whether 3-story mixed use is financially feasible. In this telling, it might be "feasible" but you won't see much redevelopment
and gain much housing with a three-story limit. I guess this is a hypothesis to interrogate as you discuss this question with mixed-use developers. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 3:26<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM Ryan, Christopher via MassPlanners <<a href="mailto:massplanners@masscptc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">massplanners@masscptc.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks, will do.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">One issue has been the assertion that at some point, the market will change and 3 stories will be feasible again…..maybe, maybe not.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">So logically, we zone for a desired outcome, not a market condition. But who knows if the state might balk at 3 story MMU based on development
feasibility. I wonder if they’ve had the opportunity to evaluate this as yet.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Chris</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Richard McCarthy <<a href="mailto:rmccarthy@norfolk.ma.us" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rmccarthy@norfolk.ma.us</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2024 2:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ryan, Christopher <<a href="mailto:cryan@belmont-ma.gov" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cryan@belmont-ma.gov</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mass Planners <<a href="mailto:massplanners@masscptc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">massplanners@masscptc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]Mandatory Mixed Use - 3A Zoning Question<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border:solid #9c6500 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#ffeb9c">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#9c6500">CAUTION:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d">Chris,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d">It’s a challenging question to answer. I’m sure you know there are so many variables in doing mixed use. We struggle
with the same questions here. I remember 3 years ago when we working on increasing building height from 2 ½ stories to 3 stories people were very concerned. We have a great mixed use building in town center that is 2 ½ stories that is fully occupied. We
explained how that project at 2 ½ stories was pretty unique in that that a local bank owned the property received site plan approval couldn’t afford to build a standalone bank. The bank partnered bank with a local developer to build a mixed use building which
they are a tenant with other tenants. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d">We are tackling this topic again if I have anything I will share.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d">Please share what you have.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1f497d">Richard J. McCarthy, Jr.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1f497d">Town Planner</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1f497d">1 Liberty Lane</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1f497d">Norfolk, MA 02056</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1f497d">508-440-2807</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1f497d">Office Hours- Monday through Thursday 9am to 6pm</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:red">As a reminder, please do not reply all to this email. If you have any questions or comments, email me directly. </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> MassPlanners <<a href="mailto:massplanners-bounces@masscptc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">massplanners-bounces@masscptc.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ryan, Christopher via MassPlanners<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 16, 2024 10:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:massplanners@masscptc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">massplanners@masscptc.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Massplanners] Mandatory Mixed Use - 3A Zoning Question<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Good morning planners</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I am having a lot of trouble finding resources to verify an assumption that mixed use buildings are generally not viable at 3 stories
and require at least 3 stories of residential in addition to the ground floor commercial to be feasible to develop in the current market. We’ve been counseled on this by several consultants but have not been able to find any journal articles, newspaper pieces,
memos, white papers, or anything else that definitively provides evidence for this.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Since we are seeking to establish a mandatory mixed use zoning subdistrict in Belmont, we’d like to be able to provide information to
our citizens who are skeptical about this assumption and would rather we limit MMU to 3 stories total. Does anyone have information which could help us with our outreach for this provision?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks in advance,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Chris R.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">====================================================<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">Christopher J. Ryan, AICP, Ph.D.</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">Director of Planning & Building</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">Town of Belmont</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">19 Moore Street</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">Belmont, MA 02478-0900</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">Tel: 617.993.2658</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">Email:
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:cryan@belmont-ma.gov" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cryan@belmont-ma.gov</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">Web:
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.belmont-ma.gov/office-of-planning-building" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.belmont-ma.gov/office-of-planning-building</a></span><span style="font-family:"Bookman Old Style",serif">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">===================================================<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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</blockquote>
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